1 00:00:12,160 --> 00:00:14,000 When you're writing, it's very good to 2 00:00:14,000 --> 00:00:15,920 have have readers so that you don't 3 00:00:15,920 --> 00:00:19,039 don't become um 4 00:00:19,039 --> 00:00:22,560 isolated and become really obsessed with 5 00:00:22,560 --> 00:00:24,720 your work. It's better to have like a 6 00:00:24,720 --> 00:00:26,960 deadline and have to turn something in 7 00:00:26,960 --> 00:00:29,119 even though it's not complete and talk 8 00:00:29,119 --> 00:00:31,359 about it and go back and revise it and 9 00:00:31,359 --> 00:00:33,760 bring it back to the workshop. It's more 10 00:00:33,760 --> 00:00:37,200 ariated than it is a very isolated and 11 00:00:37,200 --> 00:00:40,640 solitary activity. It's good also to 12 00:00:40,640 --> 00:00:43,120 have an environment where everything is 13 00:00:43,120 --> 00:00:45,360 understood to be imperfect. It's a 14 00:00:45,360 --> 00:00:47,520 workshop. Writing workshop means that 15 00:00:47,520 --> 00:00:50,399 it's work in progress and nothing is 16 00:00:50,399 --> 00:00:52,399 expected to be perfect. So, it's 17 00:00:52,399 --> 00:00:54,079 understood that anyone comes into a 18 00:00:54,079 --> 00:00:56,320 writing workshop wants criticism and 19 00:00:56,320 --> 00:01:00,280 will look forward to it. 20 00:01:04,159 --> 00:01:05,760 Now, we're going to take up a story by 21 00:01:05,760 --> 00:01:09,280 Corey called Near Death, which is a 22 00:01:09,280 --> 00:01:11,840 great title. Lindsay, I'm just going to 23 00:01:11,840 --> 00:01:14,000 ask you what you thought about the story 24 00:01:14,000 --> 00:01:16,159 as it like a reader, just as a reader 25 00:01:16,159 --> 00:01:17,360 first. 26 00:01:17,360 --> 00:01:19,520 So, as a general reader, I really loved 27 00:01:19,520 --> 00:01:21,520 it and connected with it. I Yeah, I was 28 00:01:21,520 --> 00:01:23,920 telling Corey that I grew up going to 29 00:01:23,920 --> 00:01:25,520 youth groups. So 30 00:01:25,520 --> 00:01:26,560 Oh, that's great. 31 00:01:26,560 --> 00:01:29,200 Yeah. So, we had that in common and I 32 00:01:29,200 --> 00:01:31,759 felt like he just did such a generous 33 00:01:31,759 --> 00:01:35,280 read of faith communities as well where 34 00:01:35,280 --> 00:01:38,400 he was pretty accurate and true to what 35 00:01:38,400 --> 00:01:40,400 the community is like without being kind 36 00:01:40,400 --> 00:01:43,520 of critical, which I thought was really 37 00:01:43,520 --> 00:01:46,720 well done throughout. And yeah, he just 38 00:01:46,720 --> 00:01:50,000 uh I thought that the opening and ending 39 00:01:50,000 --> 00:01:53,040 of the story were extremely strong and 40 00:01:53,040 --> 00:01:54,799 masterful. Like I love this first line. 41 00:01:54,799 --> 00:01:56,960 The injuries themselves weren't serious. 42 00:01:56,960 --> 00:01:58,799 The first was a two inch and then we're 43 00:01:58,799 --> 00:02:01,360 looking for the second one and and then 44 00:02:01,360 --> 00:02:03,360 we're not expecting those pigs to come 45 00:02:03,360 --> 00:02:04,320 back 46 00:02:04,320 --> 00:02:06,880 and they do in the hallucination at the 47 00:02:06,880 --> 00:02:08,879 end and 48 00:02:08,879 --> 00:02:13,360 just it was surprising but completely 49 00:02:13,360 --> 00:02:16,879 satisfying and came full arc and full 50 00:02:16,879 --> 00:02:18,720 circle. 51 00:02:18,720 --> 00:02:19,280 Yeah, 52 00:02:19,280 --> 00:02:21,840 it's very a sort of a vivid image in a 53 00:02:21,840 --> 00:02:26,000 way in a kind of um colloquial 54 00:02:26,000 --> 00:02:28,959 presence to bring something biblical in 55 00:02:28,959 --> 00:02:30,560 apocalyptic 56 00:02:30,560 --> 00:02:32,800 is somewhat startling. The story from 57 00:02:32,800 --> 00:02:34,959 the Old Testament. So we we kind of 58 00:02:34,959 --> 00:02:37,760 wonder I think what that's going to do 59 00:02:37,760 --> 00:02:39,440 and then it comes back later. 60 00:02:39,440 --> 00:02:40,800 Yeah. And I think he just does a good 61 00:02:40,800 --> 00:02:43,920 job of showing how this youth pastor has 62 00:02:43,920 --> 00:02:46,080 these Bible stories kind of interweaved 63 00:02:46,080 --> 00:02:48,480 with his psychology. He kind of keeps 64 00:02:48,480 --> 00:02:50,160 returning to them and thinking about 65 00:02:50,160 --> 00:02:53,200 them even in that first paragraph about 66 00:02:53,200 --> 00:02:54,959 lapping the water straight from the 67 00:02:54,959 --> 00:02:58,319 source or cupping it to your mouth. This 68 00:02:58,319 --> 00:03:00,480 is like little details that he picks up 69 00:03:00,480 --> 00:03:01,280 on. 70 00:03:01,280 --> 00:03:02,879 Then when they talk about that a little 71 00:03:02,879 --> 00:03:05,840 later, there's this exchange like on 72 00:03:05,840 --> 00:03:08,319 page five. 73 00:03:08,319 --> 00:03:10,159 Then there's the story of the pigs. The 74 00:03:10,159 --> 00:03:12,159 story always disturbed me. The idea of a 75 00:03:12,159 --> 00:03:14,480 soul without a frame. those angry, 76 00:03:14,480 --> 00:03:16,879 desperate demons darting around seeking 77 00:03:16,879 --> 00:03:19,760 something to inhabit. It means this 78 00:03:19,760 --> 00:03:21,519 space inside our bodies and room for 79 00:03:21,519 --> 00:03:23,840 more than just our own souls. 80 00:03:23,840 --> 00:03:26,239 And then Aaliyah says, "But you can't 81 00:03:26,239 --> 00:03:27,680 possibly believe that." She's laughing 82 00:03:27,680 --> 00:03:30,080 and she says, "Demon pigs. It's silly." 83 00:03:30,080 --> 00:03:32,239 And then I, the narrator says, "I don't 84 00:03:32,239 --> 00:03:33,760 think my belief has anything to do with 85 00:03:33,760 --> 00:03:35,920 it." Which is kind of an unexpected 86 00:03:35,920 --> 00:03:39,440 remark. And it's from a perspective that 87 00:03:39,440 --> 00:03:42,080 the reader would find a little bit um, 88 00:03:42,080 --> 00:03:46,560 you know, dramatic. and unusual. 89 00:03:46,560 --> 00:03:48,720 Okay. What else about about the the 90 00:03:48,720 --> 00:03:49,519 pros? 91 00:03:49,519 --> 00:03:52,640 Yeah, I think he also just did a really 92 00:03:52,640 --> 00:03:54,799 good job with, 93 00:03:54,799 --> 00:03:57,040 you know, looking at this idea of this 94 00:03:57,040 --> 00:03:59,360 person who really believes in infinity 95 00:03:59,360 --> 00:04:04,400 and the eternal and how he would then 96 00:04:04,400 --> 00:04:07,599 feel about his body. And I think it's 97 00:04:07,599 --> 00:04:09,360 interesting because of course there's a 98 00:04:09,360 --> 00:04:11,680 rule of workshop that you're never 99 00:04:11,680 --> 00:04:13,840 supposed to write a dream, right? Like 100 00:04:13,840 --> 00:04:15,519 we have like write a dream. Yeah. Write 101 00:04:15,519 --> 00:04:17,759 a dream, lose a reader. 102 00:04:17,759 --> 00:04:19,519 Is that it? Write a dream, lose a 103 00:04:19,519 --> 00:04:19,919 reader. 104 00:04:19,919 --> 00:04:23,120 I think Yeah, that was the feedback. But 105 00:04:23,120 --> 00:04:28,000 I felt so engaged and present in these 106 00:04:28,000 --> 00:04:29,759 uh hallucinations that were brought on 107 00:04:29,759 --> 00:04:32,479 by him injuring himself with the falls 108 00:04:32,479 --> 00:04:35,280 and in the shower that I was really 109 00:04:35,280 --> 00:04:36,800 surprised by cuz I would expect to be 110 00:04:36,800 --> 00:04:38,240 pushed out of the story, but they very 111 00:04:38,240 --> 00:04:39,919 much felt 112 00:04:39,919 --> 00:04:43,360 like the heart of the story or the most 113 00:04:43,360 --> 00:04:44,960 almost the most tangible thing that you 114 00:04:44,960 --> 00:04:47,040 would grab onto and think about 115 00:04:47,040 --> 00:04:48,960 throughout the piece. So, I thought that 116 00:04:48,960 --> 00:04:50,400 was really interesting that it was 117 00:04:50,400 --> 00:04:52,160 flipped for me. 118 00:04:52,160 --> 00:04:53,919 I didn't really think of them as dreams. 119 00:04:53,919 --> 00:04:55,600 I'm not sure. 120 00:04:55,600 --> 00:04:58,479 I'm not sure that I gave a name to them 121 00:04:58,479 --> 00:04:59,680 necessarily, like 122 00:04:59,680 --> 00:05:00,400 visions. 123 00:05:00,400 --> 00:05:02,720 Um, more like visions. 124 00:05:02,720 --> 00:05:03,680 Yeah. 125 00:05:03,680 --> 00:05:05,360 If 126 00:05:05,360 --> 00:05:07,520 a near-death experience, the title of 127 00:05:07,520 --> 00:05:10,160 the story is near-death, you know. So, 128 00:05:10,160 --> 00:05:11,759 is there such a thing as a near-death 129 00:05:11,759 --> 00:05:14,800 experience that's authentic? And 130 00:05:14,800 --> 00:05:17,919 could it be something like this? And 131 00:05:17,919 --> 00:05:20,960 therefore is it maybe a higher 132 00:05:20,960 --> 00:05:23,759 experience than ordinary life 133 00:05:23,759 --> 00:05:25,919 and higher than a dream. A dream is sort 134 00:05:25,919 --> 00:05:27,759 of a wisp and a dream is not that 135 00:05:27,759 --> 00:05:31,360 significant. We have you know 400 dreams 136 00:05:31,360 --> 00:05:33,759 a month let's say or more. Whereas this 137 00:05:33,759 --> 00:05:35,520 is sort of like a vision that's it's 138 00:05:35,520 --> 00:05:37,280 kind of unusual 139 00:05:37,280 --> 00:05:40,080 and I thought that was um really a novel 140 00:05:40,080 --> 00:05:42,560 idea to write a story about. It's a 141 00:05:42,560 --> 00:05:44,400 story that's about something that we 142 00:05:44,400 --> 00:05:48,160 haven't encountered before. 143 00:05:48,160 --> 00:05:50,000 Did you like the title? Like 144 00:05:50,000 --> 00:05:52,800 I did like the title. I think at first 145 00:05:52,800 --> 00:05:55,120 it maybe suggested a different kind of 146 00:05:55,120 --> 00:05:57,440 story than I was expecting, 147 00:05:57,440 --> 00:06:00,639 but I felt like it did so much work for 148 00:06:00,639 --> 00:06:04,400 me on the ending because I wasn't quite 149 00:06:04,400 --> 00:06:07,520 sure at the end what exactly was going 150 00:06:07,520 --> 00:06:10,720 on, you know, in quote unquote the real 151 00:06:10,720 --> 00:06:13,360 world, like not the vision world. And I 152 00:06:13,360 --> 00:06:16,479 think the title made me connect the dots 153 00:06:16,479 --> 00:06:18,080 that maybe it was this near death, but 154 00:06:18,080 --> 00:06:19,600 that he's going to wake up and come back 155 00:06:19,600 --> 00:06:22,880 from it. So, I thought I thought it was 156 00:06:22,880 --> 00:06:23,600 working. 157 00:06:23,600 --> 00:06:25,360 What do you think about using the a 158 00:06:25,360 --> 00:06:26,479 therapist? 159 00:06:26,479 --> 00:06:29,840 So, I actually um I liked it at first, 160 00:06:29,840 --> 00:06:32,800 but on second read, I feel like I loved 161 00:06:32,800 --> 00:06:35,840 that there was this adult who was only 162 00:06:35,840 --> 00:06:37,520 surrounded by teenagers and only 163 00:06:37,520 --> 00:06:39,759 surrounded by people younger than him. 164 00:06:39,759 --> 00:06:41,520 And I almost felt like it would do more 165 00:06:41,520 --> 00:06:44,160 for the story to for him to have no 166 00:06:44,160 --> 00:06:47,440 adult outlet to talk to, even though I 167 00:06:47,440 --> 00:06:49,680 think a therapist does a lot of work in 168 00:06:49,680 --> 00:06:52,080 um letting us get into someone's 169 00:06:52,080 --> 00:06:55,199 interiority and their motivations and 170 00:06:55,199 --> 00:06:56,400 see what he's going through. And I'm a 171 00:06:56,400 --> 00:06:57,680 little bit less worried about him since 172 00:06:57,680 --> 00:06:59,199 he's seeing a therapist because I was 173 00:06:59,199 --> 00:07:00,639 definitely worried about him throughout. 174 00:07:00,639 --> 00:07:02,319 But I almost want him just to be 175 00:07:02,319 --> 00:07:04,639 surrounded by kids like Leah could maybe 176 00:07:04,639 --> 00:07:07,680 step in as the therapist. I thought that 177 00:07:07,680 --> 00:07:10,720 was a more of a convention, you know, 178 00:07:10,720 --> 00:07:12,400 going to a therapist, 179 00:07:12,400 --> 00:07:14,880 like people who are telling a story and 180 00:07:14,880 --> 00:07:17,599 that they're actually in a a prison cell 181 00:07:17,599 --> 00:07:20,319 or they're talking to a psychiatrist 182 00:07:20,319 --> 00:07:23,440 or to um 183 00:07:23,440 --> 00:07:26,080 a a minister as they're being about to 184 00:07:26,080 --> 00:07:27,520 be hanged or something, you know, it's 185 00:07:27,520 --> 00:07:29,680 sort of like a convention 186 00:07:29,680 --> 00:07:32,800 maybe. And then the therapist 187 00:07:32,800 --> 00:07:36,160 doesn't really have enough to do or but 188 00:07:36,160 --> 00:07:38,080 the situation is that this therapist 189 00:07:38,080 --> 00:07:41,039 belongs to the church and so he's free. 190 00:07:41,039 --> 00:07:43,360 And so that that's sort of a a little 191 00:07:43,360 --> 00:07:45,680 bit of an irony sort of undercuts his 192 00:07:45,680 --> 00:07:47,280 his value. 193 00:07:47,280 --> 00:07:49,440 And I like the idea that he's got this 194 00:07:49,440 --> 00:07:52,720 bald h head and ponytail in back and he 195 00:07:52,720 --> 00:07:54,720 goes hearkens back to the counterculture 196 00:07:54,720 --> 00:07:56,639 and some world you know that was 197 00:07:56,639 --> 00:07:59,759 idealistic. the church is slightly left 198 00:07:59,759 --> 00:08:02,000 of center. 199 00:08:02,000 --> 00:08:04,879 I thought that was good. 200 00:08:04,879 --> 00:08:06,960 Maybe he feels he should see the 201 00:08:06,960 --> 00:08:09,120 therapist, but he's not going to tell 202 00:08:09,120 --> 00:08:11,759 the truth to the therapist or he hides 203 00:08:11,759 --> 00:08:13,919 himself from the therapist. 204 00:08:13,919 --> 00:08:15,840 Having the therapist, somebody to whom 205 00:08:15,840 --> 00:08:18,160 he tells exactly what happened to him 206 00:08:18,160 --> 00:08:21,360 seems to make it less dramatic. Don't 207 00:08:21,360 --> 00:08:22,879 you all feel that if you went to a 208 00:08:22,879 --> 00:08:25,520 therapist, you would definitely 209 00:08:25,520 --> 00:08:27,680 not tell them the truth? you know, like 210 00:08:27,680 --> 00:08:29,360 you'll be making up some story about 211 00:08:29,360 --> 00:08:30,879 yourself that's makes you makes you more 212 00:08:30,879 --> 00:08:33,839 interesting, you know, or less less 213 00:08:33,839 --> 00:08:36,640 obviously insane. He's obviously pretty 214 00:08:36,640 --> 00:08:39,919 pretty strange. So maybe that if if you 215 00:08:39,919 --> 00:08:42,080 want a therapist and the idea of the man 216 00:08:42,080 --> 00:08:45,680 with the ponytail, he could be somebody 217 00:08:45,680 --> 00:08:48,240 who 218 00:08:48,240 --> 00:08:51,200 is not exactly a real therapist, but 219 00:08:51,200 --> 00:08:53,360 more like 220 00:08:53,360 --> 00:08:56,160 the person to whom somebody goes who's 221 00:08:56,160 --> 00:08:58,959 not exactly a real licensed therapist. 222 00:08:58,959 --> 00:09:01,680 I mean, is he he's not a real therapist, 223 00:09:01,680 --> 00:09:03,040 is he? Or is he? 224 00:09:03,040 --> 00:09:06,160 I thought he does he have a degree. 225 00:09:06,160 --> 00:09:07,680 Yeah, it seemed like he had a degree, 226 00:09:07,680 --> 00:09:08,880 but that 227 00:09:08,880 --> 00:09:10,640 he was still associated with the church, 228 00:09:10,640 --> 00:09:12,240 which I I found interesting. So, at 229 00:09:12,240 --> 00:09:13,519 first on First Street, I thought it was 230 00:09:13,519 --> 00:09:15,360 like a church counseling. 231 00:09:15,360 --> 00:09:15,680 Yes. 232 00:09:15,680 --> 00:09:17,200 thing where he was going to see like a 233 00:09:17,200 --> 00:09:19,440 lay pastor or something like that versus 234 00:09:19,440 --> 00:09:21,920 an official 235 00:09:21,920 --> 00:09:23,760 if you if you wanted him to see a 236 00:09:23,760 --> 00:09:25,040 therapist, it might be better to have 237 00:09:25,040 --> 00:09:28,320 him see a therapist who has an ideology 238 00:09:28,320 --> 00:09:30,240 very different from his own. Like when 239 00:09:30,240 --> 00:09:31,839 this therapist says he said that Christ 240 00:09:31,839 --> 00:09:33,600 had prepared the way for us and so 241 00:09:33,600 --> 00:09:35,680 forth. As soon as the therapist said 242 00:09:35,680 --> 00:09:37,360 that, there seems to be no difference 243 00:09:37,360 --> 00:09:40,320 between him and the therapist. Like 244 00:09:40,320 --> 00:09:42,480 if he went to a secular therapist or 245 00:09:42,480 --> 00:09:45,519 somebody that the state or the county 246 00:09:45,519 --> 00:09:47,600 county services 247 00:09:47,600 --> 00:09:50,240 provides some free 248 00:09:50,240 --> 00:09:52,560 counseling. So maybe he went once or 249 00:09:52,560 --> 00:09:54,240 twice and then he never went back. That 250 00:09:54,240 --> 00:09:56,000 might be more interesting because he's 251 00:09:56,000 --> 00:09:58,800 coming from this really insular are 252 00:09:58,800 --> 00:10:00,800 these evangelical Christians sort of 253 00:10:00,800 --> 00:10:03,519 coming from their world into a secular 254 00:10:03,519 --> 00:10:06,560 world would be much more dramatic. 255 00:10:06,560 --> 00:10:08,240 Well, on page five, which you had 256 00:10:08,240 --> 00:10:11,040 mentioned, page five, 257 00:10:11,040 --> 00:10:12,880 Tim puts his glasses on and and looked 258 00:10:12,880 --> 00:10:15,040 into my eyes. So, it's like a dramatic 259 00:10:15,040 --> 00:10:17,120 moment. He says, "Besides, as far as I 260 00:10:17,120 --> 00:10:18,480 can tell, the point of the story isn't 261 00:10:18,480 --> 00:10:20,720 the man on the road, the demon. It's 262 00:10:20,720 --> 00:10:22,240 about names." he said and then turned 263 00:10:22,240 --> 00:10:24,640 and left the room. 264 00:10:24,640 --> 00:10:27,600 Uh I as a reader I was sort of baffled. 265 00:10:27,600 --> 00:10:29,200 I didn't I didn't know what I was 266 00:10:29,200 --> 00:10:31,360 supposed to think. 267 00:10:31,360 --> 00:10:33,519 What does that mean? I'm just going to 268 00:10:33,519 --> 00:10:35,839 ask the author. 269 00:10:35,839 --> 00:10:38,640 Um 270 00:10:38,640 --> 00:10:43,120 uh I think Tim is remarking on the part 271 00:10:43,120 --> 00:10:46,079 of the the story from the biblical story 272 00:10:46,079 --> 00:10:48,000 of Jesus on the road to the Gatherines 273 00:10:48,000 --> 00:10:51,200 with the whole pig story. Um the way it 274 00:10:51,200 --> 00:10:53,279 starts is 275 00:10:53,279 --> 00:10:55,360 um now I'm misremembering the actual 276 00:10:55,360 --> 00:10:57,920 story but he speaks his own name. 277 00:10:57,920 --> 00:10:59,519 There's there's power in names in that 278 00:10:59,519 --> 00:11:02,240 story itself like uh they he asks the 279 00:11:02,240 --> 00:11:04,000 pigs Jesus asked the pigs like what's 280 00:11:04,000 --> 00:11:05,600 your name and neighbor or the the demons 281 00:11:05,600 --> 00:11:06,959 and they say we are Legion. 282 00:11:06,959 --> 00:11:07,680 We are 283 00:11:07,680 --> 00:11:09,519 and then he speaks his own name to cast 284 00:11:09,519 --> 00:11:13,920 out the the demons. So, I just wanted 285 00:11:13,920 --> 00:11:16,000 Tim to grasp on to some part of exactly 286 00:11:16,000 --> 00:11:17,440 as you described, some part of the story 287 00:11:17,440 --> 00:11:20,800 that other people didn't. Um, and that's 288 00:11:20,800 --> 00:11:22,640 what he grasped on to this idea of the 289 00:11:22,640 --> 00:11:23,839 power of names because it's basically 290 00:11:23,839 --> 00:11:26,160 this name exchange and then that's and 291 00:11:26,160 --> 00:11:27,600 then Jesus's name is more powerful and 292 00:11:27,600 --> 00:11:29,360 the demons fly out of him of the of the 293 00:11:29,360 --> 00:11:29,920 pigs. 294 00:11:29,920 --> 00:11:31,440 Well, I think that's very interesting. 295 00:11:31,440 --> 00:11:33,200 It doesn't it's not really communicated 296 00:11:33,200 --> 00:11:35,200 by what you've written here that it's 297 00:11:35,200 --> 00:11:38,399 such a it's so swift like he said and 298 00:11:38,399 --> 00:11:40,079 then turned and left the room. I'm 299 00:11:40,079 --> 00:11:41,839 sorry. Leah said, you said a bad 300 00:11:41,839 --> 00:11:42,959 experience. I thought you were going to 301 00:11:42,959 --> 00:11:44,880 talk about didn't tell me much. In other 302 00:11:44,880 --> 00:11:47,200 words, you um you really jump right over 303 00:11:47,200 --> 00:11:49,920 that moment. You know, it if you want to 304 00:11:49,920 --> 00:11:52,800 isolate it a little more and emphasize 305 00:11:52,800 --> 00:11:55,360 that it would be quite powerful. The 306 00:11:55,360 --> 00:11:57,600 narrator could think about it. He could 307 00:11:57,600 --> 00:12:00,320 realize what he meant a little later. He 308 00:12:00,320 --> 00:12:01,920 could be baffled but then think about 309 00:12:01,920 --> 00:12:04,880 it. But when you have Leah talking 310 00:12:04,880 --> 00:12:07,120 immediately, she said, "I'm sorry. I 311 00:12:07,120 --> 00:12:08,880 tried to get him to talk about it." Then 312 00:12:08,880 --> 00:12:10,480 she reached the god put her hand on my 313 00:12:10,480 --> 00:12:12,000 knee. 314 00:12:12,000 --> 00:12:14,399 That is so soon, you know, that could 315 00:12:14,399 --> 00:12:16,959 almost be another scene all by itself. 316 00:12:16,959 --> 00:12:20,240 So it becomes anticlimactic. 317 00:12:20,240 --> 00:12:23,120 Sometimes a story is like a little ride 318 00:12:23,120 --> 00:12:25,200 on a bicycle or in a vehicle, you know, 319 00:12:25,200 --> 00:12:26,639 and you don't want to go too fast. Like 320 00:12:26,639 --> 00:12:28,800 your bicycle is really going fast and 321 00:12:28,800 --> 00:12:31,279 people are saying, "Well, what? Wait, we 322 00:12:31,279 --> 00:12:32,880 didn't see that." But you're already on 323 00:12:32,880 --> 00:12:34,240 the next hill, you know, and you're sort 324 00:12:34,240 --> 00:12:36,560 of moving along because the next theme 325 00:12:36,560 --> 00:12:40,560 is this her touching him and that's like 326 00:12:40,560 --> 00:12:44,160 another theme and that's um in itself 327 00:12:44,160 --> 00:12:47,680 startling and unexpected. Leah, I said I 328 00:12:47,680 --> 00:12:50,639 put my hand over hers for a moment. 329 00:12:50,639 --> 00:12:52,720 Uh we have to go and next week and so 330 00:12:52,720 --> 00:12:54,560 forth. Now, that that could just be a 331 00:12:54,560 --> 00:12:57,040 little scene by itself, but not run in 332 00:12:57,040 --> 00:13:00,079 together with with what comes before or 333 00:13:00,079 --> 00:13:02,639 make it just a longer scene. 334 00:13:02,639 --> 00:13:06,399 Otherwise, I think it's just lost. 335 00:13:06,399 --> 00:13:08,480 Okay. Any other comments about the 336 00:13:08,480 --> 00:13:10,399 story? 337 00:13:10,399 --> 00:13:12,560 So, what about the ending? Yeah, like I 338 00:13:12,560 --> 00:13:14,480 said, I I think you did such a good job 339 00:13:14,480 --> 00:13:20,720 of pacing us to this point as well. And 340 00:13:20,720 --> 00:13:25,120 I think I maybe expected something to 341 00:13:25,120 --> 00:13:28,240 happen with Tim or I expected to see 342 00:13:28,240 --> 00:13:32,480 more with the visions or get to the or 343 00:13:32,480 --> 00:13:33,839 reach the figure and that was all 344 00:13:33,839 --> 00:13:36,079 satisfying. But I think by doing this 345 00:13:36,079 --> 00:13:37,920 turn back to something that we'd already 346 00:13:37,920 --> 00:13:40,160 seen and it was something that was so 347 00:13:40,160 --> 00:13:42,560 odd and disturbing to both the 348 00:13:42,560 --> 00:13:45,200 characters and you know the reader me to 349 00:13:45,200 --> 00:13:46,880 end on these this image of the pigs. cuz 350 00:13:46,880 --> 00:13:48,240 I just feel like you had such strong 351 00:13:48,240 --> 00:13:51,120 images throughout that were just really 352 00:13:51,120 --> 00:13:54,079 anchoring the story. And you know, when 353 00:13:54,079 --> 00:13:55,519 I walked away from reading it, that's 354 00:13:55,519 --> 00:13:58,720 what I was picturing was these pigs just 355 00:13:58,720 --> 00:14:01,680 crashing into the water. It it might be 356 00:14:01,680 --> 00:14:04,160 good to 357 00:14:04,160 --> 00:14:06,079 touch upon that image like in the middle 358 00:14:06,079 --> 00:14:08,639 of the story, not too obviously, but 359 00:14:08,639 --> 00:14:10,959 just in some way. 360 00:14:10,959 --> 00:14:12,160 There are lots of different ways you 361 00:14:12,160 --> 00:14:13,519 could do it. I mean, I'm not going to 362 00:14:13,519 --> 00:14:16,000 suggest you have an image of a pig on a 363 00:14:16,000 --> 00:14:18,160 or a picture of a pig or a cat that's 364 00:14:18,160 --> 00:14:20,079 fat like a pig or anything. I mean, I'll 365 00:14:20,079 --> 00:14:21,360 just leave it to you to come up with 366 00:14:21,360 --> 00:14:25,440 some subtlety there. Well, it was really 367 00:14:25,440 --> 00:14:27,440 nice when Lindsay read a little 368 00:14:27,440 --> 00:14:30,160 paragraph from her story. So, Corey, 369 00:14:30,160 --> 00:14:32,560 maybe you could read just the whole 370 00:14:32,560 --> 00:14:34,160 first paragraph. That may be nice to 371 00:14:34,160 --> 00:14:36,079 hear you read in your own voice. 372 00:14:36,079 --> 00:14:38,880 Sure. The injuries themselves weren't 373 00:14:38,880 --> 00:14:41,760 serious. The first was a 2-in gash on 374 00:14:41,760 --> 00:14:44,000 the side of my head, a narrow red line 375 00:14:44,000 --> 00:14:45,680 stretched like a highwire between my 376 00:14:45,680 --> 00:14:48,240 temple and the corner of my left eye. It 377 00:14:48,240 --> 00:14:49,920 bled a lot in the way that head injuries 378 00:14:49,920 --> 00:14:52,560 always do. But it didn't take much to 379 00:14:52,560 --> 00:14:54,480 clean up the blood, knit the gash with a 380 00:14:54,480 --> 00:14:56,480 few butterfly bandages, and move on with 381 00:14:56,480 --> 00:14:59,279 my day. What worried me were all the 382 00:14:59,279 --> 00:15:01,120 moments just after the injury when I was 383 00:15:01,120 --> 00:15:03,680 staring up at the white ceiling. I keep 384 00:15:03,680 --> 00:15:05,279 thinking about the choice I had to make 385 00:15:05,279 --> 00:15:06,560 lying there on the ground and 386 00:15:06,560 --> 00:15:07,920 remembering this story from the Old 387 00:15:07,920 --> 00:15:09,920 Testament, the one where Gideon brings 388 00:15:09,920 --> 00:15:12,480 his soldiers down to the water's edge. 389 00:15:12,480 --> 00:15:14,560 God tells him that his chosen army will 390 00:15:14,560 --> 00:15:15,760 be the few among them who bring the 391 00:15:15,760 --> 00:15:17,199 water up to their mouths with their 392 00:15:17,199 --> 00:15:19,120 hands, not those who lay on their 393 00:15:19,120 --> 00:15:20,639 bellies and greedily lap from the 394 00:15:20,639 --> 00:15:23,279 source. I wish I could lap from the 395 00:15:23,279 --> 00:15:25,519 source, I think. But then again, I'd 396 00:15:25,519 --> 00:15:27,279 also like to be chosen. 397 00:15:27,279 --> 00:15:29,040 Yes, that's very nice. in this idea of 398 00:15:29,040 --> 00:15:32,399 cho of his uh expressing some kind of 399 00:15:32,399 --> 00:15:34,800 agency that he's he wants to make a 400 00:15:34,800 --> 00:15:36,480 choice. I kept thinking about the choice 401 00:15:36,480 --> 00:15:39,040 I had to make and then when I was 402 00:15:39,040 --> 00:15:40,639 reading the story and sort of rereading 403 00:15:40,639 --> 00:15:42,800 and looking back on that I'm not sure 404 00:15:42,800 --> 00:15:44,560 now what the choice was he wants to 405 00:15:44,560 --> 00:15:47,360 make. Well, what did you intend his 406 00:15:47,360 --> 00:15:51,279 choice? Lit literally literally not not 407 00:15:51,279 --> 00:15:54,240 theoretically, but literally 408 00:15:54,240 --> 00:15:58,560 literally I think he's remarking on the 409 00:15:58,560 --> 00:16:01,440 lying on the ground seeing a sort of 410 00:16:01,440 --> 00:16:03,839 like blackness of hitting your head and 411 00:16:03,839 --> 00:16:05,519 then making a decision to sort of 412 00:16:05,519 --> 00:16:08,240 instead of pushing it off, you know, 413 00:16:08,240 --> 00:16:10,560 just closing it in and then going into 414 00:16:10,560 --> 00:16:13,120 unconsciousness, right? and and he from 415 00:16:13,120 --> 00:16:14,720 then on starts making the conscious 416 00:16:14,720 --> 00:16:17,199 choice to go into unconsciousness. 417 00:16:17,199 --> 00:16:17,600 Okay. 418 00:16:17,600 --> 00:16:20,320 Um that that's literal uh my literal 419 00:16:20,320 --> 00:16:20,959 interpretation. 420 00:16:20,959 --> 00:16:24,320 Yeah. I think I wasn't sure as a reader 421 00:16:24,320 --> 00:16:26,160 what that what you were indicating 422 00:16:26,160 --> 00:16:26,800 there. Okay. 423 00:16:26,800 --> 00:16:28,639 So I'm not sure that most readers would 424 00:16:28,639 --> 00:16:31,199 get that. 425 00:16:31,199 --> 00:16:33,839 Okay. The I was watering the plants the 426 00:16:33,839 --> 00:16:35,279 first time it happened sitting on a 427 00:16:35,279 --> 00:16:37,360 chair in the kitchen and I thought that 428 00:16:37,360 --> 00:16:39,680 was a good description. But I definitely 429 00:16:39,680 --> 00:16:41,199 thought that he was much I thought he 430 00:16:41,199 --> 00:16:42,560 was much older. Like I thought he was 431 00:16:42,560 --> 00:16:45,040 really middle-aged or or even elderly 432 00:16:45,040 --> 00:16:47,360 that he was doing he was reaching up and 433 00:16:47,360 --> 00:16:49,839 that he got like an attack of vertigo or 434 00:16:49,839 --> 00:16:52,480 something and fell over. I was very 435 00:16:52,480 --> 00:16:54,560 surprised to hear that he's a younger 436 00:16:54,560 --> 00:16:56,079 man. 437 00:16:56,079 --> 00:16:59,440 So basically he he has a concussion. 438 00:16:59,440 --> 00:17:01,440 He's unconscious 439 00:17:01,440 --> 00:17:03,759 and he has something like a vision in 440 00:17:03,759 --> 00:17:06,480 this other state and he thinks it's like 441 00:17:06,480 --> 00:17:09,199 a near-death experience or or something. 442 00:17:09,199 --> 00:17:11,039 And so he wants to replicate and have 443 00:17:11,039 --> 00:17:13,280 that experience again. So he's sort of 444 00:17:13,280 --> 00:17:16,079 choosing to do that again and again. So 445 00:17:16,079 --> 00:17:18,079 how many times these do like two or 446 00:17:18,079 --> 00:17:20,400 three times or three times in the story? 447 00:17:20,400 --> 00:17:22,799 It's represented three or four times in 448 00:17:22,799 --> 00:17:24,640 the story, but maybe implied that he 449 00:17:24,640 --> 00:17:26,319 he's done it a bunch more, I think. And 450 00:17:26,319 --> 00:17:28,160 he's all battered and he has like black 451 00:17:28,160 --> 00:17:31,280 eyes and he's all bandaged and and so 452 00:17:31,280 --> 00:17:33,039 forth. 453 00:17:33,039 --> 00:17:34,400 Yeah. I was wondering if he was dressing 454 00:17:34,400 --> 00:17:36,320 his own wounds too because it kind of 455 00:17:36,320 --> 00:17:37,840 seemed like I couldn't tell if he was 456 00:17:37,840 --> 00:17:40,240 going to get medical attention or 457 00:17:40,240 --> 00:17:42,400 he was doing this himself. 458 00:17:42,400 --> 00:17:44,960 Well, I think that the story if it were 459 00:17:44,960 --> 00:17:47,360 a Flat Hero Connor story, do you do you 460 00:17:47,360 --> 00:17:49,679 like do you know her work? Okay. She she 461 00:17:49,679 --> 00:17:51,600 often deals with situations like this 462 00:17:51,600 --> 00:17:53,760 that people are trying to get into some 463 00:17:53,760 --> 00:17:57,360 position, you know, visav God or Jesus 464 00:17:57,360 --> 00:18:00,559 and try to get Jesus to come into their 465 00:18:00,559 --> 00:18:02,720 hearts or they want to make sure that 466 00:18:02,720 --> 00:18:04,799 they're a saved person and they're 467 00:18:04,799 --> 00:18:07,520 superior to other people. I think do you 468 00:18:07,520 --> 00:18:10,160 need a little more narrative distance 469 00:18:10,160 --> 00:18:12,400 between yourself and the narrator? Like 470 00:18:12,400 --> 00:18:15,039 I think that he is 471 00:18:15,039 --> 00:18:17,039 and here I'm using a kind of Flanny O' 472 00:18:17,039 --> 00:18:22,160 Conor term. He's a grotesque and absurd 473 00:18:22,160 --> 00:18:26,799 and proudful person. Like he doesn't 474 00:18:26,799 --> 00:18:29,679 have any right to be doing this. Like if 475 00:18:29,679 --> 00:18:32,799 you were a Christian person, 476 00:18:32,799 --> 00:18:34,080 you shouldn't be doing that to your 477 00:18:34,080 --> 00:18:35,440 body. You know, it's almost like 478 00:18:35,440 --> 00:18:37,679 committing suicide. He's definitely 479 00:18:37,679 --> 00:18:39,440 injuring his brain. He's going to have a 480 00:18:39,440 --> 00:18:42,320 hemorrhage. He may already be seriously 481 00:18:42,320 --> 00:18:45,360 brain damaged from these concussions. Um 482 00:18:45,360 --> 00:18:46,880 he's probably going to have a a 483 00:18:46,880 --> 00:18:48,640 hemorrhage. you know, he's probably 484 00:18:48,640 --> 00:18:51,360 going to die. So, he's doing something 485 00:18:51,360 --> 00:18:53,520 that I think Fletconor would treat in a 486 00:18:53,520 --> 00:18:55,600 much more satirical way, though she 487 00:18:55,600 --> 00:18:57,840 would be very serious about it. But that 488 00:18:57,840 --> 00:19:00,559 there's something about like he's a holy 489 00:19:00,559 --> 00:19:03,440 a holy mad man or a holy holy innocent 490 00:19:03,440 --> 00:19:05,280 or there's something about him that's 491 00:19:05,280 --> 00:19:08,320 absurd. I think you you're too 492 00:19:08,320 --> 00:19:11,520 respectful of him. You know, we we get 493 00:19:11,520 --> 00:19:13,679 to feel that there's something comic and 494 00:19:13,679 --> 00:19:16,320 grotesque about him and the reader, I 495 00:19:16,320 --> 00:19:17,679 think, starts to feel impatient with 496 00:19:17,679 --> 00:19:19,600 him, like if he were your your close 497 00:19:19,600 --> 00:19:23,440 friend. And the the students are not 498 00:19:23,440 --> 00:19:27,280 students, but the young people are 499 00:19:27,280 --> 00:19:30,400 kind of worried about him and upset. And 500 00:19:30,400 --> 00:19:31,679 he said, "I don't know why they're 501 00:19:31,679 --> 00:19:35,520 worried about me." Oh, on page two, the 502 00:19:35,520 --> 00:19:36,880 kids in my youth group were a little 503 00:19:36,880 --> 00:19:39,039 freaked out. I had bandages on my head. 504 00:19:39,039 --> 00:19:41,440 huge purple bruise. I could see it in 505 00:19:41,440 --> 00:19:43,360 her eyes. 506 00:19:43,360 --> 00:19:45,520 Leah seemed concerned. She worried about 507 00:19:45,520 --> 00:19:47,760 me of all the relationships uh and so 508 00:19:47,760 --> 00:19:50,400 forth. I'm not sure why she and the rest 509 00:19:50,400 --> 00:19:51,840 of the group were so worried about my 510 00:19:51,840 --> 00:19:53,600 injuries. 511 00:19:53,600 --> 00:19:55,520 That seems like a very ingenuous or 512 00:19:55,520 --> 00:19:57,440 disingenuous thing to say. You know, you 513 00:19:57,440 --> 00:20:01,200 come in all broken and beaten up and and 514 00:20:01,200 --> 00:20:04,000 with a black eye and you're hobbling in 515 00:20:04,000 --> 00:20:06,559 and and wondering why they care about 516 00:20:06,559 --> 00:20:09,679 you. That's sort of disingenuous for an 517 00:20:09,679 --> 00:20:12,400 adult. You know, he's obviously hoping 518 00:20:12,400 --> 00:20:15,200 to get through sympathy or he's he's an 519 00:20:15,200 --> 00:20:16,799 exhibitionist. 520 00:20:16,799 --> 00:20:18,320 If he's trying to get through this 521 00:20:18,320 --> 00:20:20,640 vision, he doesn't have to do it in this 522 00:20:20,640 --> 00:20:23,039 in this public way. So, I'm not sure 523 00:20:23,039 --> 00:20:24,799 what you can do about that. It's because 524 00:20:24,799 --> 00:20:26,559 the tone of the story is sort of 525 00:20:26,559 --> 00:20:29,200 respectful toward him. Maybe it could be 526 00:20:29,200 --> 00:20:32,960 more of a black humor or black comedy. 527 00:20:32,960 --> 00:20:34,720 There may even be a Flanny or Connor 528 00:20:34,720 --> 00:20:35,919 story where she deals with something 529 00:20:35,919 --> 00:20:39,200 like this. Uh, isn't there one of her 530 00:20:39,200 --> 00:20:40,240 characters wants to 531 00:20:40,240 --> 00:20:41,280 the tattoo? 532 00:20:41,280 --> 00:20:44,559 The tattoo on the back. Yeah. 533 00:20:44,559 --> 00:20:45,679 The title right? 534 00:20:45,679 --> 00:20:49,200 Yeah. The uh tattoo 535 00:20:49,200 --> 00:20:50,960 I've forgotten the title of it also. 536 00:20:50,960 --> 00:20:53,520 It's one of her later stories that 537 00:20:53,520 --> 00:20:56,159 actually um 538 00:20:56,159 --> 00:20:59,280 she wrote soon before she died. The 539 00:20:59,280 --> 00:21:01,360 wife, the evangelical Christian wife of 540 00:21:01,360 --> 00:21:03,600 the man who gets the tattoo of Christ on 541 00:21:03,600 --> 00:21:06,480 the cross, she starts beating him with a 542 00:21:06,480 --> 00:21:07,919 broom. She says, "What are you doing? 543 00:21:07,919 --> 00:21:10,880 You know, you have putting an image of 544 00:21:10,880 --> 00:21:13,120 Christ on your back." And she she really 545 00:21:13,120 --> 00:21:16,880 singles him out as being vain and kind 546 00:21:16,880 --> 00:21:19,760 of obnoxious, you know, whereas in this 547 00:21:19,760 --> 00:21:22,000 story, there's nobody who who does that. 548 00:21:22,000 --> 00:21:24,559 Maybe Leah would be the one, but she's 549 00:21:24,559 --> 00:21:27,679 not exactly doing that because when Tim 550 00:21:27,679 --> 00:21:29,679 hits him, 551 00:21:29,679 --> 00:21:33,360 Tim is not reacting to that part of him. 552 00:21:33,360 --> 00:21:35,200 It's more like he's jealous of 553 00:21:35,200 --> 00:21:38,320 connection with Leah. 554 00:21:38,320 --> 00:21:40,080 Yeah, that was an interesting moment 555 00:21:40,080 --> 00:21:42,559 because Tim 556 00:21:42,559 --> 00:21:45,360 uh says, "What's wrong with you?" 557 00:21:45,360 --> 00:21:48,720 And I first read that line one way and 558 00:21:48,720 --> 00:21:50,400 then on my second read, I read it 559 00:21:50,400 --> 00:21:52,559 another way and I thought 560 00:21:52,559 --> 00:21:54,080 it could either go both ways if you 561 00:21:54,080 --> 00:21:56,320 wanted to leave it ambiguous. But I 562 00:21:56,320 --> 00:21:57,520 thought it was meaning what's wrong with 563 00:21:57,520 --> 00:21:58,960 you cuz he was looking at all of his 564 00:21:58,960 --> 00:22:00,320 injuries. But then, 565 00:22:00,320 --> 00:22:00,720 yes, 566 00:22:00,720 --> 00:22:02,480 I also read it as like a what's wrong 567 00:22:02,480 --> 00:22:06,880 with you flirting with a teenage girl. 568 00:22:06,880 --> 00:22:08,640 Yes. And I thought that scene was really 569 00:22:08,640 --> 00:22:11,200 very dramatic and maybe went too fast 570 00:22:11,200 --> 00:22:12,880 cuz you immediately get to the sort of 571 00:22:12,880 --> 00:22:16,080 rhetorical abstract ending. What would 572 00:22:16,080 --> 00:22:18,320 stay in that scene a little bit longer 573 00:22:18,320 --> 00:22:20,480 because Tim has been provoked to behave 574 00:22:20,480 --> 00:22:23,120 in a way that's a aggravated assault. He 575 00:22:23,120 --> 00:22:25,520 hits him with a skateboard. Presumably 576 00:22:25,520 --> 00:22:26,960 he's knocked them out again. And this 577 00:22:26,960 --> 00:22:30,080 person knocked out more times than Rocky 578 00:22:30,080 --> 00:22:31,919 Graziano. I mean, he's just sort of 579 00:22:31,919 --> 00:22:35,440 knocked down many, many times. You could 580 00:22:35,440 --> 00:22:37,440 make him want to be an imitation of 581 00:22:37,440 --> 00:22:39,120 Christ. You know, Christ suffered 582 00:22:39,120 --> 00:22:41,679 physically. I mean, that might be some 583 00:22:41,679 --> 00:22:44,559 part of his his pride or his hubris to 584 00:22:44,559 --> 00:22:46,960 do something like that if he was if he 585 00:22:46,960 --> 00:22:49,760 was Christian. But I'm not seeing how 586 00:22:49,760 --> 00:22:54,000 Christ or Jesus is really um a figure in 587 00:22:54,000 --> 00:22:55,520 his life. you know, he doesn't seem to 588 00:22:55,520 --> 00:22:59,440 be very Christian for somebody who would 589 00:22:59,440 --> 00:23:01,760 feel that Jesus was his savior and was 590 00:23:01,760 --> 00:23:04,480 his closest friend if he's a youth 591 00:23:04,480 --> 00:23:06,880 leader and not seeing that Jesus was 592 00:23:06,880 --> 00:23:10,880 much part of the story, you know, now 593 00:23:10,880 --> 00:23:13,679 might have Jesus hitting him 594 00:23:13,679 --> 00:23:15,679 like I've had enough of you, you know, 595 00:23:15,679 --> 00:23:17,280 sort of hitting you or hit him with a 596 00:23:17,280 --> 00:23:18,960 cross or or something in some 597 00:23:18,960 --> 00:23:20,559 hallucination. 598 00:23:20,559 --> 00:23:22,960 So Leah is sort of a standin for this 599 00:23:22,960 --> 00:23:24,480 other girl that he's remembering. Is 600 00:23:24,480 --> 00:23:25,840 that it? Like 601 00:23:25,840 --> 00:23:26,960 that's how I was thinking about it. 602 00:23:26,960 --> 00:23:28,000 Yes. 603 00:23:28,000 --> 00:23:29,919 So I think the girl in the past is too 604 00:23:29,919 --> 00:23:31,280 vague. 605 00:23:31,280 --> 00:23:32,799 And we we would need to know what 606 00:23:32,799 --> 00:23:35,840 happened to her. Maybe she got married, 607 00:23:35,840 --> 00:23:39,120 she moved on. Maybe he he's not stalking 608 00:23:39,120 --> 00:23:40,960 her, of course, because a youth leader 609 00:23:40,960 --> 00:23:43,280 doesn't stall. but he happens to go 610 00:23:43,280 --> 00:23:44,799 drive by her house once in a while and 611 00:23:44,799 --> 00:23:46,720 he sees she has a little baby or 612 00:23:46,720 --> 00:23:48,559 we just need to be brought up to date 613 00:23:48,559 --> 00:23:51,760 because he's not a boy anymore 614 00:23:51,760 --> 00:23:54,240 and he's so starkly alone too like we 615 00:23:54,240 --> 00:23:56,880 can really tell that he lives alone and 616 00:23:56,880 --> 00:23:58,880 I mean he wouldn't be able to do this to 617 00:23:58,880 --> 00:24:01,440 himself if he had a wife or a roommate 618 00:24:01,440 --> 00:24:03,360 obviously. 619 00:24:03,360 --> 00:24:06,480 Did any of you see the wonderful movie 620 00:24:06,480 --> 00:24:10,320 First Reformed with Ethan Hawk? That's a 621 00:24:10,320 --> 00:24:12,799 movie that's really beautiful, serious 622 00:24:12,799 --> 00:24:16,080 movie about a Protestant minister in an 623 00:24:16,080 --> 00:24:19,440 ecological uh sort of disaster area and 624 00:24:19,440 --> 00:24:23,279 he's trying to be uh he's trying to to 625 00:24:23,279 --> 00:24:26,000 be a real Christian and the story is 626 00:24:26,000 --> 00:24:28,000 just brilliant. That's one of the best 627 00:24:28,000 --> 00:24:30,320 movies I've seen in a long time. Ethan 628 00:24:30,320 --> 00:24:32,400 Hawk's performance is tremendous 629 00:24:32,400 --> 00:24:34,400 because it's it seems like it might be a 630 00:24:34,400 --> 00:24:36,080 little satirical, but actually it really 631 00:24:36,080 --> 00:24:38,559 isn't. so immersed in this this 632 00:24:38,559 --> 00:24:41,120 Protestant minister 633 00:24:41,120 --> 00:24:43,600 and then the idea that Leah is really 634 00:24:43,600 --> 00:24:45,039 reaching out to him. She says, "Well, 635 00:24:45,039 --> 00:24:47,919 sex is human and Jesus was was human, 636 00:24:47,919 --> 00:24:51,039 too." He doesn't really want to confront 637 00:24:51,039 --> 00:24:53,600 that. He doesn't talk to her in a way 638 00:24:53,600 --> 00:24:56,400 that seems uh really adult. It's like 639 00:24:56,400 --> 00:25:00,159 he's running away from her. 640 00:25:00,159 --> 00:25:03,039 But I thought the idea and the uh sort 641 00:25:03,039 --> 00:25:05,279 of audacity of the theme was very 642 00:25:05,279 --> 00:25:08,960 unusual and very striking. So there were 643 00:25:08,960 --> 00:25:10,640 a few other things I thought about the 644 00:25:10,640 --> 00:25:12,159 story. I didn't think that Tim came 645 00:25:12,159 --> 00:25:14,799 across very well. We're told that he's a 646 00:25:14,799 --> 00:25:16,480 a wonderful boyfriend. It might be 647 00:25:16,480 --> 00:25:18,400 better that that your character is 648 00:25:18,400 --> 00:25:20,320 jealous of him a little bit or doesn't 649 00:25:20,320 --> 00:25:22,240 want to grant him much. So let me ask 650 00:25:22,240 --> 00:25:23,919 you kind of quickly, what does the story 651 00:25:23,919 --> 00:25:25,760 mean to you? Did you write it just 652 00:25:25,760 --> 00:25:30,080 recently or? Um I I probably wrote it um 653 00:25:30,080 --> 00:25:33,360 last over the course of last year. Um 654 00:25:33,360 --> 00:25:35,440 and I wanted to sort of earnestly 655 00:25:35,440 --> 00:25:39,279 explore the uh the Christian ideology of 656 00:25:39,279 --> 00:25:41,760 believing in an afterlife and then also 657 00:25:41,760 --> 00:25:43,520 push it to a level of parody to see what 658 00:25:43,520 --> 00:25:46,880 the limits of it would be. Um, and then 659 00:25:46,880 --> 00:25:48,320 there were a few images just floating 660 00:25:48,320 --> 00:25:50,880 around in my in my mind from things that 661 00:25:50,880 --> 00:25:52,720 have happened to me and it was 662 00:25:52,720 --> 00:25:54,320 eventually two at some point two other 663 00:25:54,320 --> 00:25:55,120 things. 664 00:25:55,120 --> 00:25:56,400 And then I realized, oh, these two 665 00:25:56,400 --> 00:25:58,400 things I'm working on are actually the 666 00:25:58,400 --> 00:26:00,320 same story. Like this this youth leader 667 00:26:00,320 --> 00:26:02,159 character is the one seeing these 668 00:26:02,159 --> 00:26:03,600 visions and I was able to kind of knit 669 00:26:03,600 --> 00:26:05,440 them together. But it's to me it's 670 00:26:05,440 --> 00:26:08,559 mostly about like um the sort of 671 00:26:08,559 --> 00:26:11,600 conflict between uh our our bodies you 672 00:26:11,600 --> 00:26:13,200 know our finite bodies and then people 673 00:26:13,200 --> 00:26:15,200 who believe very earnestly in in the 674 00:26:15,200 --> 00:26:17,600 afterlife like what use has your is your 675 00:26:17,600 --> 00:26:18,799 if you truly believe that right like 676 00:26:18,799 --> 00:26:20,320 what use does what does your body become 677 00:26:20,320 --> 00:26:22,400 right what does hunger become what does 678 00:26:22,400 --> 00:26:23,919 sex become what does 679 00:26:23,919 --> 00:26:25,600 violence become 680 00:26:25,600 --> 00:26:26,480 um 681 00:26:26,480 --> 00:26:28,720 so I wanted to see a character str be 682 00:26:28,720 --> 00:26:31,679 struggling through those sort of uh 683 00:26:31,679 --> 00:26:32,320 questions 684 00:26:32,320 --> 00:26:34,559 yeah I think I think the story just 685 00:26:34,559 --> 00:26:38,159 needs a reccasting maybe of the voice. 686 00:26:38,159 --> 00:26:39,919 It would be interesting to see him more 687 00:26:39,919 --> 00:26:42,000 from other perspectives 688 00:26:42,000 --> 00:26:43,679 because 689 00:26:43,679 --> 00:26:46,799 will be like a close third, you know, 690 00:26:46,799 --> 00:26:49,600 person, but you always should also draw 691 00:26:49,600 --> 00:26:52,240 back. So, we look at them like your 692 00:26:52,240 --> 00:26:54,400 camera's moving in and out. And I think 693 00:26:54,400 --> 00:26:56,159 you're so close to him all the time that 694 00:26:56,159 --> 00:26:58,240 we're not really seeing him. And he's 695 00:26:58,240 --> 00:26:59,919 sort of like a flat character, oddly 696 00:26:59,919 --> 00:27:02,240 enough, and he seems very immature. But 697 00:27:02,240 --> 00:27:04,640 it's a it's a very um risky and 698 00:27:04,640 --> 00:27:07,840 audacious theme I think to take this all 699 00:27:07,840 --> 00:27:11,039 very very seriously. But literally he's 700 00:27:11,039 --> 00:27:12,960 killing himself, you know. That's the 701 00:27:12,960 --> 00:27:14,720 literal thing. And at the end I thought 702 00:27:14,720 --> 00:27:17,600 maybe he had uh lapsed into a deep 703 00:27:17,600 --> 00:27:20,159 unconsciousness. Is he in a coma at the 704 00:27:20,159 --> 00:27:22,799 end? What are we supposed to think? 705 00:27:22,799 --> 00:27:24,640 Um 706 00:27:24,640 --> 00:27:26,640 yeah, I'm I'm not sure. I I I actually 707 00:27:26,640 --> 00:27:28,960 think he is telling this whole story 708 00:27:28,960 --> 00:27:33,120 from from after that point, right? Cuz 709 00:27:33,120 --> 00:27:35,440 uh he's just explaining like this is 710 00:27:35,440 --> 00:27:36,240 what happened to me. The injuries 711 00:27:36,240 --> 00:27:38,240 themselves weren't serious, you know? 712 00:27:38,240 --> 00:27:39,919 But I I do think I need to do better 713 00:27:39,919 --> 00:27:41,360 thinking about what happens after the 714 00:27:41,360 --> 00:27:43,200 end because, you know, there's this 715 00:27:43,200 --> 00:27:44,880 strong implication that either he dies 716 00:27:44,880 --> 00:27:47,520 or um I think it's probably more 717 00:27:47,520 --> 00:27:49,279 interesting if he lives and now what is 718 00:27:49,279 --> 00:27:52,000 his life like that he's ruined this? 719 00:27:52,000 --> 00:27:54,320 That's right. He may be expelled from 720 00:27:54,320 --> 00:27:55,919 his community or he may leave it 721 00:27:55,919 --> 00:27:59,520 voluntarily. Tim may be in in jail or 722 00:27:59,520 --> 00:28:02,880 he's been indicted with assault. Uh Tim 723 00:28:02,880 --> 00:28:06,559 was provoked into like a public act of a 724 00:28:06,559 --> 00:28:09,120 aggravated assault and the the head 725 00:28:09,120 --> 00:28:11,120 injury from this blow would just all 726 00:28:11,120 --> 00:28:13,279 this blood all over, you know, so you 727 00:28:13,279 --> 00:28:15,520 kind of jump and tiptoe away from a a 728 00:28:15,520 --> 00:28:18,320 really violent melodramatic scene. But 729 00:28:18,320 --> 00:28:19,919 it's really well done and I think we 730 00:28:19,919 --> 00:28:22,000 really enjoyed it. So thank you very 731 00:28:22,000 --> 00:28:22,480 much. 732 00:28:22,480 --> 00:28:25,919 Thank you. That was wonderful.